Help for an Arnie swim type?

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woody
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby woody » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:39 pm

Hi Don/ Charles
Reading exchanges between you with interest .

I am still struggling with my breathing and keep hoping to crack it I have copied out the training sets for a bambino from the book a warm up , build ,main (technique) and cool down 100 lengths total a lot with flippers .I started doing at the weekend but still struggling to do more than 2 or 3 lengths of the 20m pool once i remove the flippers. What it has highlighted is that I can swim a lot easier on my right side than my left in fact swimming on my left side is awful -my kick is downwards and when i try to kick sideways everything goes wrong .Yet switch sides and I go smoothly.

Don you said your stroke rate is 30 I think mine is not a lot more but at 30 even with a breath every two strokes we are only breathing 15 times a minute .So the time mouth is out of the water to take a breath has to be important so maybe we should be brushing up on timing technique that has us inhaling as long as possible.

What do you think Charles and how did you do on Sunday getting your swimmers perpetual? Is it just a case of persevering and swimming slowly with the sort of stroke rates Don and I have.

Regards Woody
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby Don Wright » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:30 pm

Hi folks!

Just an update from my swim session today - on my attempts to get beyond the "one-length dashes" followed by longish "breathers" for all strokes except my old EBS (and fly of course!!!) - in case "SolarEnergy" is still monitoring this old geezer!

On back crawl - which I selected first, 'cos one is free to breathe as one pleases. I forced myself to do 4 lengths "continuous" (apart from 2 sneaky inhalations at the turns). The last length was not "pretty", very laboured due to breathing problems - an onlooker would have said "What's that! You call that back crawl!?". Tried to keep a relaxed "rolling action" leg flutter going most of the time - until the last "more desperate" length!

On breast stroke - selected 'cos my face is in the water most of the time doing exhalation, just rising above the surface for inhalation as the arms do their outsweep. First 2 lengths OK, but it all went "pear-shaped" about 2/3 of the way through the 3rd length - I could feel my arms getting terribly tired and the legs to a lesser extent. I tried to exhale more during the glide, but then discovered I desperately needed air - then it all went wrong, could feel myself hurrying to reach the end wall, arriving very breathless! I don't know if the sudden onset of tiredness in the limbs was due to oxygen deficit, or stale air build up - perhaps "SolarEnergy" can diagnose the problem!

On front crawl stuff! - I had a preliminary try at the full "catchup" drill, breathing unilaterally (without introducing any delay during inhalation, although I suggested I might try that in my last post). I always use a tight "pitter-patter" type leg flutter for front crawl, for minimal energy cost and to just provide balance. Managed 2 lengths "continuous" (plus sneaky inhalation at the turn), but arrived in a slightly breathless state, so didn't try a bit more. Conclusion! - I could get quite addicted to this "catch up" drill, it seemed smoother, if slower, than my normal stroke! I hope introducing a slight delay at the inhalation (during a glide! :twisted: ) , might enable me to do more "continuous" :lol: lengths.

Bye / Don

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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby SolarEnergy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:19 am

Don Wright wrote: Hi "SolarEnergy"! I thought it might be better to stop "shooting off my mouth about things", but am terribly addicted to this forum since I have learnt a great deal from it - so here I am "bouncing back again" commenting on what you say, in relation to what I am probably doing wrong!
Sports is a healthy addiction, I think we can agree on that (at least :lol: )

Don Wright wrote:I think my front crawl SPM is probably in the 30s region, so it's all relaxed stuff.
So you're saying you don't have a tempo device?

Don Wright wrote:When I inhale on every second arm stroke, despite exhaling on the head-down arm stroke (I really do gently puff out a stream of bubbles!), I can definitely feel myself "blowing up with stale air", and it becomes more difficult to make a proper inhalation after a while. That's why inhaling on every 3rd arm stroke enabled me to feel more comfortable for the next inhalation. The problem that arises with this bilateral style is I think, more one of "rate of energy expenditure"/"oxygen input". If this is really the case, then as I begin to feel things are "getting a bit fraught", maybe I should temporarily roll onto my back for a "breather", then continue.
My opinion? The situation is simple. I trust the fact that you're trying to exhale whilst unilateral breathing, but in reality I think you may not be able yet to exhale entirely.

And at the stroke rate you seem to be swimming, and there it would become quite fun to actually know at which rate you swim, defined as one arm stroke per beep, I donno.

30s doesn't make much sense, although it could be the case. But 30 defined as one stroke per beep, it means that this rate is so unbelievably low, that it makes bilateral breathing very hard even on a youngster. And I think you can feel were I'm heading, if it's rather 60 (ie, 30 defined as one *left* arm stroke per beep), then I understand perfectly why you would be unable to breathe every 2.

But the idea is that we need to learn how to exhale. Me, from my remote location, not having access to any video footage, not having seen you for live interaction, I have to have a proof that you're exhaling correctly, in order to end up with a proper diagnostic and issue the proper recommendation.

Which brings me back to my statement. Given a sound breathing technique, breathing every 2 is something that's not only feasible, it's rather comfortable. It's a breathing pattern that's not recommended mostly for mis-balance issue.

So here Don, I'm not trying to set the way you should swim for ever and a day, but rather to better understand where the bottleneck is.

Don Wright wrote:On the matter of "perpetual swimming", I had forgotten that is exactly what I can already do, when on my back swimming English back stroke. I just need to be able to do a similar thing while on my tum!
There's a reason why I won't let you go Don. It is possible to experience same sort of feeling swimming the free, compared to these extremely economical stroke (ie, English backstroke and breaststroke). If only we could have used the Snorkel. But we can work without.

Don Wright wrote: Thinking along those lines, I first tried to see how many continuous lengths I could do with back crawl - inhaling on one arm stroke and exhaling on the other. At 70 could manage 4 lengths=100m without too much trouble. That has now dropped to just 2 lengths - laboured breathing and the the tiring continual arm/leg action without any rest decided me against pushing on a bit more! Repeated the test - yup! just 2 lengths were about my comfortable limit. :lol: Doing kicking drill on the back soon puffs me out, and I just "dribble along" rather slowly due to having by stiff ankles/inflexible feet.
Wow if I didn't trust freestyle that much, I'd start to worry here... ;-)

Don Wright wrote:Did a repeat test, and pretty much the same result - I could have" pushed on" a bit more, but "chickened out"! ;)
I know about this state of mind a lot. Beginners react this way too. That was the feeling I had when I first swam, I will remember this.

I'd say that in Perpetual swimming, there's a bit of learning by necessity (a big thing for me, learning by necessity). That is, yes you will feel a bit strange, on the edge of panicking for no apparent reason other than doing this by habit. But yet you'll be amaze at how quickly you can get to tame this feeling.

And I'm positive. If your knees could stand a bit of breast regiment, it could be a sound exploration path. Because overall, this feeling will be the same, but multiply by 2 when trying to go over the boundary at Freestyle. Body rotation and head movements adds a bit of a dizziness effect at Free which is not there at Breast. It's easier to stay calm at breast, whereas at Free, the rotating left rotating right breathing right rotating left breathing right again or whatever the pattern adds a bit of dizziness to the first few Perpetual swims.

Make no mistake though. You've been wanting this for so long now, that if it ever works, the reward will be awesome!

For me, as an athlete, you're forced to swim above your CSS speed now, due to physical resistrictions. It's important to understand that every single of my calls is motivated by that, and therefore I'm following theory books very freely here. I don't know of any book that teach coaches how to teach the free to someone that can only perform it above CSS speed, and that is stuck starting from this intensity then cutting down on expenditure until we finally reach CSS speed, in which case you'll have at least 8 lengths of a 25m pool relatively comfortable, 4 being very easy, and 800m being very very challenging to finish.

And obviously, if we did go under CSS speed, then it means actual Perpetual swimming.

Don Wright wrote: Am thinking it might be a good idea for me to try again, the full front crawl "catch-up" drill. Bringing the hands to meet together at the front after each arm stroke, doing unilateral breathing, and just kicking if I need to carry on exhaling till comfortably ready to take the next inhalation, and taking as long as I like over that inhalation! (Doing that can't be any slower than my efforts using the TI long doggy paddle!)
Baffled! / Don


Don, being fast is not at all important. I surprise myself almost quoting Terry Laughlin here, but you are looking for a path to longer distances swimming, and the key is to cut on energy expenditure. Therefore you should always aim for your slowest possible speed at everything. Pfew I feel better, didn't have to quote Terry here.... Ahhhh let us do this. On this road to exploration, you have to aim for calm state of mind (he'd mention Kaizen, which I'd translate to calm).

If it's the people around you that stresses you a bit, then no worries. It's far easier to pass slower people. The worst thing for a swimming, is someone just a bit slower than him on a continuous swim, when you have to do intervals. It means you end up constantly having to struggle passing this person.

But as far as you're concerned, slow speed should never ever be a problem. Contrary. It has to become your ultimate goal at EVERYTHING you do without any single exception that I can think of.

You're too short on energy you can expand. So as long as you get going, it's fine. We start from there, then improve the stroke, and the speed will improve.
SolarEnergy
Charles G. Couturier, Canadian Swimming / Triathlon Coach

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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby SolarEnergy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:30 am

I've seen Don, with all these years of being a Lifeguard/swim instructor. But especially a lifeguard, those very old and extremely, but I mean extremely slow swimming showing up to the pool several times per week.

They share several things in common.

First, you can't imagine these swimmers being faster than this amazingly slow speed. And please if there are other lifeguards, especially having worked in Universities where you find these very old researchers, strange looking, very very very slow.

Second, they all carry a significant dead spot and I'm not the one who will try to teach them how to swing trust me.

Balance is the number one friend for these guys and women. There are a lot of women corresponding to this criteria too. They are so slow, that you can think of them as someone that is floating in a position that's anywhere in between less than decent to wonderfully at the surface. For men, as often as not, it's less than decent. But still, it works. Their boat gets going and if it takes up to 2min to book a 25m, then so be it.

They're generally very well respected in their lanes.

But among all these theories I reckon you know very well, you're a great theoretician, in your case it's balance that is the most critical aspect, and breathing. The more on balance, the less energy.

Balance for you is a force that is even stronger than your own force you can expand in the water. And these very old people, I don't know if it's your case I have no clue what you look like etc, but these very old people that swim extremely slowly, they all use that force other wise they just would NOT be able to swim perpetually like they do. It's as simple as that and I don't think this can be argued in any way.

I don't think that if I'd see you, I would qualify you in this very old people swimming category. I'm no expert, but most of these I have in mind are way way past 80, with most having physical dis formation, like a neck at straight 90degree, etc.

If you no longer have to expand the energy that balance alone can provide, you're free to fly.

I've often been asking people that they give me their slowest possible 25m or 50m swim for a few months now. And I'm often disappointed that either a) they won't even try or b) they think they do, but in reality they don't and I can't really figure out why yet..... I'm thinking it's intrinsically being scared to drawn. It has to be strong motivation, other wise people would more happily play this ultra simple game.
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby Don Wright » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:32 am

Hi "SolarEnergy"!

Many thanks for your extensive replies to my "agonized" posts. There is much that I would like to pick out of your helpful stuff to clarify things - but for the moment will settle on just a few points : -

I thought a "tempo" trainer would be a waste on such a poor (lengthwise!) swimmer as myself - so knowing that the time for one of my 25m front crawl "dashes" take between 30 and 35 secs (allowing for "off days"!), and that I take about 12 to 15 complete stroke cycles/length...

[ I am usually so busy concentrating on the finer details of my stroke, that my estimate of the number of strokes per length is probably a bit unreliable - I tend to forget to count or lose track of the count (the old "grey matter" gets a bit water-logged you know!) - also "push-offs" over a single length can distort real timings! ]

... That gives me an SPM between 20 and 25 - :o EEK!!! Not having a tempo trainer, I got some degree of corroboration by looking at the Mr Smooth animation, and fiddling around with the SPM control, so as to very roughly match my "land-based" movements with that of the animation - it being easy to see if I had selected an animation SPM much slower or much faster than I actually do, so I think a figure of 25 to 30 for the SPM would be nearer actuality.

When I swim unilateral, the time for the next inhalation seems to come around quite quickly - too quickly for me to cope with when attempting to go past the 1-length "hurdle"! I've tried to avoid forcing all the stale air out, as I've said that's certainly not relaxing. I deliberately open my mouth wide during the underwater exhalation to produce a lot of bubbles, making an audible sound as I do that. I sometimes forget to close the lips more when it's time to inhale, so I occasionally I get a bit of water in the mouth. I can't do the "Popeye mouth twist" business, to get the the mouth in a slightly more sideways position!

That "catch up" drill seems to be the most promising thing for me to try in my opinion, as long as I s-l-o-w it down to your figure of perhaps 1 minute per 25m length (I take about 45 secs/EBS length!) - just to get the breathing sorted out! I will concentrate on getting the front crawl business sorted out first, before worrying about back crawl or breast stroke breathing!

I have looked at the "info" on this website for the Finis Tempo Trainer, will ask Santa Claus to bring me one for Xmas! ;) Have you any suggestion as to what "beep" interval I should set for the start of each arm stroke - given my age/condition and my hope of "perpetual" swimming"! - something fairly close in action to front crawl, whether it be a slow version of the full stroke, or maybe "catch up" (you can tell I rather enjoyed doing that! :) )

Thank you again for your very helpful comments. I do really believe that it is possible to get "over my hurdle" with application along the right lines! It seems so silly to be able to swim EBS indefinitely, but not front crawl.

Bye / Don

P.S. In view of the latest idea of clicking the "Report Spam" button, is it a waste of time adding a post to the "Spam Alert" topic - especially as that button click leads one into giving a "reason" for the action?

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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby Mike A » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:36 am

Only just catching up with this interesting thread. Maybe my experiences with breathing might be worth sharing. At present I breathe unilaterally every 2 strokes. My stroke rate is around 50spm. I have to blow out quite forcefully to clear the stale air in time. If I switch to bilateral I can exhale more gently - but I tend to get breathless after a few lengths. Doing 3-2 pattern keeps me going a little longer, but for continuous swimming only unilateral works at the moment.

Interesting that Charles mentions balance. This was really key for me. Being able to balance has enabled me to adopt a relaxed 2-beat kick that saves a lot of energy. It also enables me, if I ever need to, to put a pause into the recovery phase, so I can inhale for a little longer. With balancing skills I feel I can control my pace better, slowing down if I feel tired or short of air. I always had this control with breaststroke, but when I started with freestyle I only had one speed; slowing down meant longer to the next breath and more chance of sinking! I realise now that I was working hard just to float - which, with good balance, is unnecessary. Now that I feel more in control, my freestyle is a lot more relaxed. I no longer worry about breathing.

Sorry if that's a bit rambly; I appreciate I'm considerably younger than you, Don, and in better general health, but maybe some of my experiences are relevant. I do feel like a bit of a heretic around here, given the emphasis SS puts on bilateral and 6 beat kick - all I can say is that it hasn't worked for me yet, though maybe it will further down the line, particularly if I lift my stroke rate or get a lot fitter. I think sometimes you have to see what works for you, and not be too dogmatic. It was not too long ago that I felt I'd never get beyond 100m freestyle, yet I have just achieved my first 1600m!

Anyway, good luck with it and keep going!

Cheers, Mike
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SolarEnergy
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby SolarEnergy » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:48 am

Don Wright wrote: [ I am usually so busy concentrating on the finer details of my stroke, that my estimate of the number of strokes per length is probably a bit unreliable - I tend to forget to count or lose track of the count (the old "grey matter" gets a bit water-logged you know!) - also "push-offs" over a single length can distort real timings!
Yeah, absolutely.

A tempo trainer is just as important for slower people, than it is for faster people. In your case though, you'd be using it for reasons that are opposite to that of faster swimmers. You'd be using it to discipline your stroke, ie slowing it down as much as it could be slowed down.

35sec per 25m is bloody bloody fast for someone your age your condition. I'd expect at least 45s swim time, along with a smile on your face to stamp that stroke as being on balance.

Don Wright wrote:... That gives me an SPM between 20 and 25 - :o EEK!!! Not having a tempo trainer, I got some degree of corroboration by looking at the Mr Smooth animation, and fiddling around with the SPM control, so as to very roughly match my "land-based" movements with that of the animation - it being easy to see if I had selected an animation SPM much slower or much faster than I actually do, so I think a figure of 25 to 30 for the SPM would be nearer actuality.
Yeah but like you mentioned earlier, with the push offs and stuff, this could go up to 40 (easily). 40 is ok, it's a slow rate, never would you be able to go bilaterally at this rate, it's impossible. And at 40, if you can't exhale, that means your breathing mechanics is faulty a bit, which would certainly not be a shame. Among my biggest flaws, is breathing mechanics. Same for the Elite model I'm using for producing my DVD. Holds his breath (which I tend to be a bit more comfortable generally), but at higher rate, his head remains in the way of the recovering arm because of that.

Don Wright wrote:That "catch up" drill seems to be the most promising thing for me to try in my opinion, as long as I s-l-o-w it down to your figure of perhaps 1 minute per 25m length (I take about 45 secs/EBS length!) - just to get the breathing sorted out! I will concentrate on getting the front crawl business sorted out first, before worrying about back crawl or breast stroke breathing!
It's relatively easy to achieve decent stroke timing using a catch up style stroke, when swimming at rates that are slower than 50 let's say. Not easy to use a continuous sort of stroke with no dead spot whatsoever when you swim 40 strokes per minute. So better switch to FQS, the exaggerated form which looks pretty much like (almost) catch up to me.

Don Wright wrote:I have looked at the "info" on this website for the Finis Tempo Trainer, will ask Santa Claus to bring me one for Xmas! ;) Have you any suggestion as to what "beep" interval I should set for the start of each arm stroke - given my age/condition and my hope of "perpetual" swimming"!
OOOoohhhhh yes I do. 42-44 strokes per minute, not any more than that.

That's me here at 46, time trialing at that rate though. Not something you'd be asked to do :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQmM0LIuWa8

So even 46 would be a touchy bit fast for you. This is why balance becomes so important. Fins-less, at 42spm, not a big DPS, you have to be on balance. Otherwise you need to fire the kick in order to stay horizontal and then slowing down the rate defeats the purpose. The energy saved in stroking less per minute, is loss kicking more to hold this ultra low rate.

Don Wright wrote:P.S. In view of the latest idea of clicking the "Report Spam" button, is it a waste of time adding a post to the "Spam Alert" topic - especially as that button click leads one into giving a "reason" for the action?
That's a very good question.

The report spam button should be used from within the thread you want to report the spam in. And there are absolutely no need for filling in the report. These gangsters, these lazy loosers, that would probably not succeed in anything in life other than poisoning people's life, are not worth documenting their crappy posts. Just hit the report spam and save.

And the difference it makes is simple. When I login on the site, I see just like you light blue/white back ground, except for those threads with spam reports, which then becomes red. You can't miss them. In other words, this button literally makes the Spam thread useless. It's far easier for moderators to locate redish threads.

If you tell me the name of a person to ban, I have to look in all threads to see if they did post, to delete their post. Using the report spam button within this thread and all their crappy posts become *RED* :twisted:
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby Don Wright » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:02 am

Hi folks!

Thank you Mike for sharing your experience re breathing and the importance of balance - also, many thanks to "Solar.." yet again!

The Finis tempo Trainer has arrived, but my wife wants to give it to me as another "pressy" for Xmas - so I must be patient for a few more weeks!

I've been looking at your clip of "almost catch up" with a pull buoy at an SPM of 46 - comparing it with Mr Smooth at approx same rate (the SPM control is a bit jerky and can't be adjusted well - but never mind, it suffices). I reckon that my "catch up" efforts so far, are not much slower. Am not (despite my first mention of trying it) waiting until the recovering arm enters to join the waiting other arm - the arm already in the water has started it's downsweep just before the recovering arm spears into the water. So am using an arm action which has a very high degree of catchup at the front, for this exercise in working towards "perpetual swimming". Yup! am defintely addicted to it now, though I know it's naughty :lol: - for the following reasons. : -

First - i saw a TI clip, in which at the start, T.M. was talking (although in the typical TI esoteric style!) about using a kick (in 2- beat style) to help the body roll towards the recovering arm ("switch" I think he called it!) just as that arm is about to spear into the water. He was emphasizing the transference of power from the kick, through the body and on to the entering arm, all aided by the hip rotation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpwhzTCW ... re=related

Although in the bit where he talks about letting the head hang down (i.e. looking towards the bottom) - this runs counter to the recommend of using a 45 degree angle for the head, so as to minimize drag! Which I think a recent "poster" drew our attention to ("quoted" again here below): -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDlvwyOM ... ontext-cha

Have for a long time been using my small amplitude flutter kick (that I call "pitter-patter" kicking!) just to help balance - but trying the TI recommend with "catch up" really seemed to give me extra forward momentum (and "Solar.." you wanted me to use 2-beat kicking to conserve energy anyway!).

Second - Instead of using the Maglischo mantra for rolling (Roll towards the stroking arm for the pull, and away from it during the push) - to my surprise with the "catch up" drill, I found myself rolling just once before the start of each armstroke.

...[ Now, I think can understand what SS mean by the advice about "Don't lean on the stroking arm for support while breathing!". When swimming my normal stroke, my lead arm is just below the surface as my stroking arm is pointing to the bottom ready to start its push as I roll away from that stroking arm and get ready to inhale (if needed at that time). If I understand things correctly, such a scenario of "leaning on the lead arm to help breathing" can only arise if there is a considerable degree of "catch up" in the arm action, when for a short while, the arms are almost !80 degrees apart. Have I got it right? ]...

What surprises me is how smooth the "catch up" drill is, there being very little turbulence as one turns to inhale in the bow wave trough! So it must be the vigorous body rolling causing the turbulence, halfway throught the underwater arm stroke when using M's mantra in the proper stroke!

With my full stroke during a recent session, I managed to keep pace with a good swimmer who was in the fast lane, during one length - a pity I was too breathless to continue much further - the other swimmer carried on noncholantly for another dozen or so lengths! During my last visit to the pool, a young chap in the fast lane, with what I thought from earlier observation while having a "breather, had a fairly decent stroke - got left behind me, as I swam in the next lane, doing one of my "catch up" lengths. So either his stroke was not so good as I first thought - or my "catch up" drill was quite effective!

My PB of 30s for 25m (most likely a "freak" occurrence!) was in my estimation poor, and the "not feeling so good" day efforts clocking about 35s even worse - that still puts me in the range of so-called "Over-Gliders" (although I hope I've eliminated that in my full stroke). In any case, I don't remember what state I arrived in at the end of the PB "dash", but I expect I was "knackered"! Unfortunately as one gets older, the "not feeling so good" days seem to outnumber the "good" ones. Am surprised "Solar.." that you think 35s for 25m is "unusual" for my age/condition, considering how excellent is the advice on this website if correctly applied...

[ If you remember from some of my past posts, I've groaned about how my walking gait is slow with occasional lurches due to wobbly knees etc. (A walking stick used occasionally, helps me limp along in a more or less straight line - but may have to resort to a "mobility scooter" one day - have definitely discounted the idea of asking for a knee replacement op, there are other joints with O-A trouble that are a bit "ropey"! I definitely don't want to "go under the knife" yet again.). However when I get in the water, am a "different person". I forget about all my aches/pains, the water is so supportive of strain-free movement. I am it seems rather an "unusual" swimmer at my pool, having a "go" at most things - am told by the attendants that I am "doing alright!". Perhaps that is their kind way of saying my efforts are just about recognizable! :lol: ]

... Have yet to see anyone else having a "go" at fly drills - so am definitely unusual in that respect! On a very few occasions have seen some swimmer attempting a full length, or less, of fly - but no-one here has had enough "go" to continue doing more in public sessions. I expect it's a different story in club times. (I was staggered by young Pablo's account in another topic, of how much fly he could do - lucky chap!)

Bye / Don

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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby LaurieR » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:47 pm

Glad to see this thread has prompted so much discussion!

SolarEnergy, thanks so much for your advice, it has really worked for me and today I was able to swim 450m at a steady speed.

Trying to go as slow as possible was amazing, I started swimming about 1:15 per 50m then when I kept on trying to go slower it was getting easier and easier but I was still getting around 1:18 per 50m.

I started to get a much better feel for my balance in the water and also realised I was lifting my head up to breathe which was making my legs sink. Working on having one goggle in the water and breathe into the pocket of air has meant I can keep my legs at the surface even at slower speeds.

Still lots of work to do, might post another video in due course. Thanks again.

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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby SolarEnergy » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:54 pm

Voilà

The "Go as slow as you can" could be compared to walking in the dark phenomenon. As you slow down, everything becomes dark and blurred. As you persist, a few sensations then become more and more obvious. Only after a whilst would things that stop you from swimming perpetually become obvious, without being threatening.

It can also be compared to walking in the dark in that very surprisingly, few people actually are willing to slow down. And I know why, people just fear to sink if they slow down under that they feel as a safe speed to go. People are scared of the dark.

So this is anything but a joke. Very serious stuff that is. And the quickest path that I know to go from zero to perpetual.
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby woody » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:58 pm

Hi Solar
By swimming slow do you mean still costantly moving arms etc just moving the stroke ratel slower and slower ie no pauses or glide ?

When I swim slowly I do seem to introduce a pause in my stroke and a glide which I presume is totally wrong


Ps we are missing you on the Advice with breathing Thread
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SolarEnergy
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby SolarEnergy » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:06 pm

It's important to understand that the swim as slow as you can recommendation issued in this thread is aimed at allowing people to finally get what most people should deserve, ie swimming perpetually with not too much effort.

In this regard, as far as I'm concern, I couldn't care less about what the stroke looks like and the number of flaws that slowing down might induce, as long as the subject can swim perpetually.

And so yes in this case, we're talking about slowing down the rate, which will undoubtedly induce a dead spot.
SolarEnergy
Charles G. Couturier, Canadian Swimming / Triathlon Coach

woody
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby woody » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:28 pm

Thanks Charles
I started swimming a couple of years ago and after a year could swim perpetually breathing unilaterally lifting head and a very short stroke poor kick etc .Then I learnt more -longer stroke ,bilateral but still poor kick and now I am out of breath after 2 lengths. Seems a few of us on here have been ok ish till we try bilateral .
My plan is to go back to slow and unilateral doing two thirds to my weak side as it seems I have introduced a fault in my breathing mechanics as i tried to improve my stroke .
And of course do 6 1 6 , side kick etc as in the book until I get my wrong side breathing up to scratch.
Is this much of a plan in your view?
Regards Woody
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

The best time to learn to swim was a long time ago the second best time is today

zeeshan
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby zeeshan » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:47 am

If you are looking for a way to improve your freestyle swim technique and speed, Swim Types from Swim Smooth may be just the thing you need. Each pdf guide breaks down a particular type of freestyle, the downside of that type, and how to change it to become a better swimmer.

Based on feedback from swimmers using the guides, Swim Type Guides are be a great way to help you improve. They are particularly useful for swimmers that are self-coached, but even swimmers in a coached program will find some great tips, drills, and pointers on how to recognize the kind of swimmer you are, and how to make yourself better.
Publisher's Site
Pros

Specific advice for the dominant trait(s) of your individual swimming style
Diagnoses your swimming style and prescribes a way to make it better (sounds almost medical!)
Includes technique drills and how to use them for your type
Four detailed swim training sessions aimed at helping swimmers with their specific faults
Website has a variety of additional tools and videos to aid swimmers
http://www.institutesofeducation.eu
Last edited by zeeshan on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Institutes of Education

woody
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Location: Cheshire
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby woody » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:40 am

Thanks Zeeshan
I have the book and got the guide just over a week ago and been to the pool with it 7 times now.early days
but feel some improvements starting to show.
Regards
Woody
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

The best time to learn to swim was a long time ago the second best time is today

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SolarEnergy
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Re: Help for an Arnie swim type?

Postby SolarEnergy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:14 am

woody wrote:Thanks Charles
I started swimming a couple of years ago and after a year could swim perpetually breathing unilaterally lifting head and a very short stroke poor kick etc .Then I learnt more -longer stroke ,bilateral but still poor kick and now I am out of breath after 2 lengths. Seems a few of us on here have been ok ish till we try bilateral .
My plan is to go back to slow and unilateral doing two thirds to my weak side as it seems I have introduced a fault in my breathing mechanics as i tried to improve my stroke .
And of course do 6 1 6 , side kick etc as in the book until I get my wrong side breathing up to scratch.
Is this much of a plan in your view?
Regards Woody


In short, yes I think it's a good plan.
SolarEnergy
Charles G. Couturier, Canadian Swimming / Triathlon Coach


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