Stuck - help me get faster..

[Wright]

Hi all- my first post...

I have been back swimming for 4 months now after a 15 year layoff - I was a moderate swimmer previously with 1500m time around 27 mins.

This time round I have worked hard on technique and reconstructed my stroke - I have currently been swimming about 4 times per week and about 1.5km per session in the past 6 weeks.

Times are at around 19s for 25m / 40s for 50m / 1:30 for 100m / 3:10 for 200m / 6:45 for 400m

If I do a series of 100's then they will likely be around 1:35 and I will need a 30s recovery, so fitness is still not 100%.

My problem is that I seem to have plateaued andhit a wall at this pace - try as I might I cannot crack 1:25 / 100m - my goal is 1:20 / 100m

I feel like my stroke is pretty solid but with weaknesses in my kick timing, which possibly impacts negatively on my body streamlining.

I realise that without seeing my stroke you cannot offer much - but I was hoping for any insights from those of you that may have broken through a similar block and taken their pace from 1:30/40 down to 1:20/25. Did you find any "fixes" or drills, was it more and longer sessions - any insights welcome.

Thanks in advance

Peter

[Bjoern Staben]

Well done.

I'd say, stick to it. It's normal to hit a plateau now and then. And in your case it's just 4 month training, so there will be further improvement.

Reduce workload for a week and than do the fast things faster and the long things longer the next stage and see what will happen.

Have fun working.

[Wright]

Thanks Bjoern - it could be a fitness thing for sure, I guess I was just worried about technique body position because I cannot get a 25m faster than 20s or so and figured fitness was not likely an issue here...

[Bjoern Staben]

Thanks Bjoern - it could be a fitness thing for sure, I guess I was just worried about technique body position because I cannot get a 25m faster than 20s or so and figured fitness was not likely an issue here...

For sure it's a technique thing.

But you've got to work as well...

[Wright]

Noted...

I do plenty of that - that's why I can't believe I am not faster...

[Bjoern Staben]

I do plenty of that - that's why I can't believe I am not faster...

Be patient. Practise and feel.

[dmc1972]

Hi Peter,
Bjoern is right, It just takes a lot of practise.
What is your stroke count for 25m?
Are you wanting to train for distance or speed?
What is a typical workout you do during one of your swim sessions?
Without seeing your stroke we can not correct it but if you can answer these questions I might be able to give you some sugestions to try.
Keep swimming

David

[Wright]

Thank you dcm..

Stroke count about 18-19, I have had it as low as 16/17 but found that cost me rhythm..

I am training to achieve a fast 1500m tri swim - goal is sub 25m and I am training to achieve a fast IM swim - goal is 1:00...

My thinking has been to focus on technique and speed - if I can't crack 1:20/100m for 15 x 100m I don't stand a chance, hence my goal to do it once first

Typical session - 1.5km (moving up to 2km next week) consisting of 1 x 500m warm up then various combinations of 100m and 50m intervals with more rest the faster I get. Today I did 10 x 100m on 2m with the 100's about 1:35-1:42 and it was ok...

I feel it is body position related and I have a poor kick - I need to get on top of the water more and get more streamlined I think...I have a strong upper body front quadrant stroke.

Thanks for helping...

[Bjoern Staben]

Thank you dcm..

Stroke count about 18-19, I have had it as low as 16/17 but found that cost me rhythm..

I am training to achieve a fast 1500m tri swim - goal is sub 25m and I am training to achieve a fast IM swim - goal is 1:00...

My thinking has been to focus on technique and speed - if I can't crack 1:20/100m for 15 x 100m I don't stand a chance, hence my goal to do it once first

Typical session - 1.5km (moving up to 2km next week) consisting of 1 x 500m warm up then various combinations of 100m and 50m intervals with more rest the faster I get. Today I did 10 x 100m on 2m with the 100's about 1:35-1:42 and it was ok...

I feel it is body position related and I have a poor kick - I need to get on top of the water more and get more streamlined I think...I have a strong upper body front quadrant stroke.

Thanks for helping...

Hmmm, where's the technique? The 500 wu? 500wu/10x100 sounds like a pretty boring session to me...

You do 200s? I like them: Fast enough/long enough for me.

Why are you planning 1.5->2k? That's a big step. Normal would be ~1.7 if your're following a plan. Or are you in recovery week at the mo?

Questions over questions... But be patient. Four month is nothing.

[Wright]

Bjoern - I try to focus on technique in every session I guess..

I just feel 2k is very manageable I suppose...

I will try to be patient..

[dmc1972]

Hi Peter,
Sorry I didnt get back to you sooner, but weekends are family time:)

It sounds like we need to work on kick and stroke length. Your workouts do sound a bit boaring.
I will try to give you some workouts to try but you will need to give me feed back on how easy or hard you are finding them.
At all times we want you to be swimming with good form. If you can not maintain good form then we are pushing to hard.

Do you have a kick board and fins? You will need them.

Warm up

4x 100m swim easy pace 20sec rest.

Main set

4x 25m kick (Freestyle) with fins. Strimline arms stretched out in front when you need to breath do a breastroke pull and then stretch back into a stream line. Concentrate on keeping a tight stream line form. Kick from hip with a little flex at the knee and anckle. Try to do these on 40 sec. (kick and rest = 40sec)

4x 50m 1st 50m swim freestyle with closed fists. (learn to pull with the whole arm)
2nd 50m kick holding top of the kick board keep arms straight no fins.
3rd 50m swim freestyle catch up drill (keep arms out in front pull with left arm when it returns to the begining of the pull, pull with the right arm)
4th 50m kick streamline position holding bottom of kick board. Pull freestyle when you need to breath. Alternate left and right sides.
20 sec rest between each 50m

4x 100m swim freestyle desending. 2:00min, 1:50, 1:40, 1:30 rest 20sec between each 100m
After your last 100m for each second over 1:30 do 5 pushups.

4x 100m swim freestyle asending. 1:30, 1:40, 1:50, 2:00 rest 20sec between each 100m
at the end of the set do 5 pushups for every second over the 1:30 on the first 100m

3x 25m SPRINT freestyle on 30sec swim and rest= 30sec (keep your stroke long and smooth kick hard this is a SPRINT)

Cool down

225m easy swim any stroke

Total distance 1800m

Let me know how this workout goes. Let me know if you manage the times and how the legs feel after the kick sets.
I will give you another workout once you give me feedback.

There are no quick fixes in swimming just a lot of hard work.
Have fun and keep swimming

David

[Wright]

Thanks very much Dave - this looks like a good set.

I have tried some kick drills before - basically arms by my side and then streamline - I find it incredibly hard and very often my hamstring cramps (I slipped a disc 2 years ago that has left my hamstring very prone to cramping) Basically, anytime I try kick drills I am very slow and find it very very tiring, which I guess indicates an issue. The only reason I have not gone hard at this area is that as a triathlete swimmer I am keen to preserve legs during the swim - but NOT at the cost of my body position.

The workout looks manageable - I did 1.7km today consisting of 1 x 500m steady (9:00) and then 10 x 100m on 2m - this was tough today and as I got tired the 100m drifted out from 1:25 to 1:45 and I barely made the 2m... but I did..

Cheers and I will report back.

Peter

[dmc1972]

Peter,
After your warm up swim stretch the hamstring before you do the kick set.
During a triathlon swim you can preserve the legs a bit during the swim but you should kick hard just before you exit the swim. This helps with the blood serculation and helps prevent the dizzy feeling when you stand up.
We will try to work on an efficent kick.
Enjoy the swim,
David

[Wright]

Hi David - some feedback, I did your session today - very enjoyable..

I don't have any fins yet so did normal kick with board - very hard but I did make some progress and felt the water better

The superman kick I am not sure about - I ended up resting my head on the board with one arm underneath it ?

The ascending and descending sets were great - the 2:00 and 1:50 were very very slow. I nailed the 1:30 (actually 1:26) but then needed more than 20s rest beofre hitting the descending set and starting with another 1:30...

Sprints all good - about 18/19s and could have done more than 3 on the 30s

All in all good - need to work on my kick..

[dmc1972]

Hi Peter,

I am glad you managed the workout and it sounds like it went well. Well done
The superman kick needs to be done with fins. It will be worth thinking about getting some. They do help alot.

A couple of questions.
1.Are you training for a specific triathlon? If so when is it?
2.What distance trathlon and what is the length of the swim?
3.Is the swim in open water or a pool? If in open water will you be using a wetsuit?
4.Are you using a training plan? If you are is it a 3 week build one week recover? If so which week are you in?

This will help me work out some aims that are specific to your needs.

Here is your next work out.

Warm up

2x 200m swim 30 sec rest

Main set

6x 25m desending stroke count. 20, 19, 18, 17, 16, 15 rest 20 sec each 25m (think about your stroke and try and feel the water)

3x 50m split first 25m of each 50m 18 stroke count secound 25m do 16 stroke count rest 20sec each 50

4x 25m Kick with fins on 30sec Arms stretch out in front in streamline, pull freestyle to breath only when needed. Alternate left, right. (If you do not have fins do this: hold bottom of kickboard face in water pull freestyle to breath. on 40 sec if you can)

4x 25m Drill 1st and 3rd 25m swim with fists, 2nd and 4th swim catch up, use fins if you have them. rest 20sec each 25

4x 100m swim hard Aim 1:30 leave on 2:00

1x 50m easy swim any stroke

4x 50m Sprint swim and kick hard Aim 45sec leave on 1:10 (this is a hard swim set do not go to fast for the first 50 try and maintain an even pace. If this is to hard adjust the times by 5sec e.g Aim 50sec leave on 1:15)

Cool down

200m easy swim any stroke

Total distance 1850m

One last question: when you swim free are you looking srtaight ahead or more down to the bottom of the pool?

Let me know if you have any questions about this workout.

I hope you enjoy it

David

[Wright]

Thanks very much - that looks like another good workout, I need to get some fins...

1.Are you training for a specific triathlon? If so when is it? Long term it is an IM next April - shorter term some 1.5km swims
2.What distance trathlon and what is the length of the swim? See above
3.Is the swim in open water or a pool? If in open water will you be using a wetsuit? Open and wetsuit
4.Are you using a training plan? If you are is it a 3 week build one week recover? If so which week are you in? Not really - only swimming 3-4 times/week so trying to make each session count in some way
5.One last question: when you swim free are you looking srtaight ahead or more down to the bottom of the pool? Looking down at bottom

I seem to be better at the shorter faster intervals and struggle more once we get over 200m - the time drop off after this distance is greater than I would like;

25m : 18s 50m : 39s 100m : 1:26 200m : 3:10 400m : 6:45

I have been working on a 2 beat kick during my catch up drills and am seriously considering adopting this across the board in order to simplify things - thoughts ?

Hope that helps..

[dmc1972]

Thats great, it gives me some idea of time and goals.

How tall are you?

For the catch up drills try a 4 or 6 beat kick, the idea of the drill is to work on the pull, a faster kick helps stabilize you and can help improve technique. For longer swims it may be worth working on a two beat kick.

We will introduce some 2 beat kick drills at some point and see what happens.

I want to make sure your technique is good first.

[Wright]

David - thanks,

How tall are you? I am 1:73m so not very tall but I have a fairly long armspan and tend towards a longer, smoother stroke.

[Wright]

Hey David - reporting back from Cape Town...did your session at 5:30 this morning.

All great - struggled with the kick drills as expected, just not a great deal happening in the way of forward propulsion.. Need to work on this and will get some fins today.

The only other big struggle today was the 4 x 100m on 2m - first one fine at 1:28 and left on 2m but thereafter were 1:35 leaving on 2:30 as I was completely buggered... I was using a 2 beat kick throughout so this made the fast 100's harder I think.

The 50's on 70 were a breeze - completed all in 42s and left on 70 no problem - but switched to 6 bt kick.

All in all a great session and very enjoyable...

Cheers

Peter

[dmc1972]

Hi Peter, Well done I thought you might struggle on the 4x100m.

We need to work on pace. You need to try and pace yourself so that you can make it through the whole set. In a long swim you want to be able to go out steady and finish strong. Most people will tend to go out to fast and then fade in the middle and struggle to finish.

Try to make the times as close to the aims as possible. If I set a slow time try to swim to that time, do not go flat out and then have a longer rest. Yes sometimes on the fast times you may not make it and you may have to adjust your time. That will happen less as I work out what you are OK doing.

This is the long work out for the week.

Warm Up

8x 50m swim Moderate pace rest 30 sec each 50m. Kick 4 or 6 beat kick.

Sub set

4x 25m Kick on side with fins. 1st and 3rd 25m kick on left side, 2nd and 4th on right side. (Lay on left side with left arm straight in front, right arm resting on side with hand on thigh. Do the opposite when kicking on right side) If you do not have fins use a kickboard.

4x25m Drill 1st and 3rd Thumb up the side (as you recover your arm scrape you thumb from your hip up your side to your arm pit), 2nd and 4th Catch up. If you have fins use them, kick 6 beat.

4x25m Breathing 1st 25m Breath only to your left side, 2nd 25m breath only to the right side, 3rd 25m breath every 3rd stroke, 4th 25m breath every 5th stroke. Use fins if you have them kick 6 beat

1x 50m easy swim

Main Set

Pyramid. Try and pace yourself and make the aim times. This is a long set do not go out to hard. Kick 4 or 6 beat through out. No Fins. Note the time is quicker on the last part of the pyramid.

50m Aim 50sec leave on 1:20
100m Aim 1:50 leave on 2:20
200m aim 3:40 leave on 4:20
400m aim 7:00 leave on 8:00
200m aim 3:30 leave on 4:10
100m aim 1:40 leave on 2:10
50m sprint all out aim 38sec Kick very hard.

Cool down
200m Easy swim

Total 2050m

If you have any questions let me know.
This is a tough set try your best and let me know your times for the pyramid.

Have fun

David