Kick Drills

[Tangler]

Hi

I have being working through the drill sessions from the DVD box set.
I can carry out most of the drills effectively except for the kick drills.
I hardly get any forward propulsion from my leg kick. It takes an incredible length of time to cover 25m.
I believe I am kicking from the hips and feel like my toes are pointed but still dont seem to generate much forward movement.
Going back to my physics days, straight legs and pointing toes will only generate a vertical component of force.
How do I introduce a horizontal component of force into the leg kick that will create forward movement.
Would introducing a bend in the knee during the stroke do this?
If i wear a set of fins i dont have any problems, ignoring the increased area of the foot; is it the flexibility of the fin blade which generates the propulsive force? If so is it the lack of flex in my ankles during the kick that is the problem. Am I perhaps keeping my feet to rigid even though they are pointed?

Any thoughts on the biomechanics of a propulsive leg kick would be gratefully appreciated.

Many Thanks

Tangler

[tonyP]

Hello Tangler et al,

I will be watching this thread with quite a bit of interest, as your description fits my own experience exactly. In fact, I have observed myself start moving backwards while doing what I perceive to be a proper kick, toes pointed, kicking from the hip, with virtually no knee bend. At any rate, I am certainly not getting "my money's worth" in terms of propulsion for the amount of energy spent kicking. As Tangler says, there must be more to it....

Anyway, I really hope someone will be able to offer us poor kickers some 'pointers'... (Ohhh that was bad wasn't it...)

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate having this forum as a source of technique information.

Tony

[swim2survive]

Are you kicking under the water or are your feet coming out and creating a bubbling reaction?

Work on flexability of your ankles...very minor toes pointing down towards the bottom of the pool will slow and even stop you from going forward. Also do very small but fast kicks with your feet and feet coming out of the water at each kick....you want to kick above or on the surface creating a bubbling reaction.

Good luck
Lisa

[likawil]

Can you make a movie of you in the water kicking so you can see what is really happening?
Then post it on here for Adam and Paul to help you out [or one of the other swim gurus who pop in]

Even with really good kinesthetic experience we can never be sure of our actual movement.
If your moving forward with fins, then there is something [probably biomechanical] not the same when you take them off.
Could be a knee bend, could be foot position, could be sunken legs, could be over kicking?

[Wright]

I would be keen to hear if any of the two OP's in this thread have made any breakthroughs here - I have the same issues and seem to go nowhere etc etc..

Have you found any tips or drills that helped ?

Thanks

Peter

[doctoreli]

I used to have a lot of trouble with my kick. Then I started teaching swimming to kids and boy was that an eye opener. How do you explain kicking to a 5 year old? The one cue that helped them (and me) IMMENSELY was doing (what we called) toe-touch kickers. Try to relax your feet and think about nothing else other than a slight brush of your big toes touching each other as you kick. For the kids, this generated a more relaxed kick with more pointed /flexible ankles, and generation of movement from the hips. Exactly what we tend to look for.

[Wright]

I used to have a lot of trouble with my kick. Then I started teaching swimming to kids and boy was that an eye opener. How do you explain kicking to a 5 year old? The one cue that helped them (and me) IMMENSELY was doing (what we called) toe-touch kickers. Try to relax your feet and think about nothing else other than a slight brush of your big toes touching each other as you kick. For the kids, this generated a more relaxed kick with more pointed /flexible ankles, and generation of movement from the hips. Exactly what we tend to look for.

Thanks- will give that a try for sure...

[swimpre]

Something that really helped me with the Kick on Side and 6/1/6 drills was to use a small pair of fins like Zoomers or the newer Z2s. I have found that the Finis Z2 fins really helped me with both the Kick on Side and 6/1/6 drills. My balance has now improved to the point where I can perform these drills without wearing the Z2 fins (although it takes longer for each lap). Another advantage of using the Z2 fins is that if your pool is crowded during lap swim hours -- requiring circle swimming -- you do not have to move to the slow lane to do the kicking drills. According to the the Finis website, the Z2 fins are supposed to help with developing an improved, more propulsive kick. I have actually found this to be true; when I take them off, my kick is nice and tight and provides much more propulsion.

[Captain Snax]

I am also rubbish at kicking in that I am very slow. Can barely get to the end of 25m with a kick board, and all those torpedo drills kicking on the side are painfully slow but help my overall technique.

I may be wrong but I do believe I will never have a strong/fast kick on its own. I think that some of it is genetics and body type/shape and history. I am a triathlete - therefore do not have flexible ankles. Something to do with the shape of my back affects my glutes and my ability to lever from the glutes according to the physio - perhaps also affects swimming. I came from a running background therefore have big strong thighs and glutes/hips are not very active. Even as a child I could never kick with a board.

However I have worked on my kick and believe I have good kick technique. eg kicking from the hips, balanced, even, short and steady, and not causing drag or getting in the way therefore efficient and helping with roll and balance during a full stroke. But I still can't get to the end of 25m kicking drills. But I do an ironman swim (3800m) in 1:14 without too much effort.

[SolarEnergy]

In order to really assess your kicking abilities or lack of, you can try the following test.

Get a kicking board but leave your head in the water. It's easier to get forward propulsion this way.

To answer one of the OPs, the propulsive forces involved is some lift effect created by the angle of attack that your feet has relative to the surface. So you see why ankle flexibility is so important. But that's not all, you need floppy ankles too. Relaxed and floppy, exactly like a pair of fins.

Grab a board, put your face in the water, and kick as hard and as fast as possible, the speed component is important here. Beat the surface as often as you can in a minute, hard!

You'll get a better idea of what your kicking potential is.

ref
http://www.youtube.com/v/GpNqN-QW5KY

Then by learning how to make your ankles flexible and floppy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akuxFXdhPEo

You will then transfer this relaxation and flexibility to your soft kicking and that should get you going forward. Work on both, the yin and the yang
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gun1oH-QrpY

[Captain Snax]

with or without a kick board. head in the water or out of the water. my kick is still slow and makes no difference if i get to the end of the 25m pool or not.