Two-Beat Kick

[HalfLordofthefishes]

Hi Guys (and gals):
I'm a big fan of the two beat kick. It feels way more natural, unhurried, and even more propulsive than my radical six beat kick, which is admittedly poor. I noticed on this site in the demo and the discussions that SwimSmooth recommends that the two beat uses a timing of "right pull, left kick" and vice versa. This is bizarre but I've been doing the opposite and it feels great. Also I looked on youtube at a lot of videos and it seems like most use same side kick/pull timing. Any opinion on that? I wouldn't ask if the video clip of Paul demonstrating the 2 beat wasn't so fantastic
Thanks!
Paul.

[Paul Newsome]

Hi Paul

From the http://www.swimsmooth.com/kick.html page:

Swim Smooth Website:

4. Timing

The timing of the kick is something that we don't normally think about much as swimmers. We have a variety of kicking speeds open to us as we'll describe below – 2, 4 or 6 beats. The key to good timing is that when the hand enters the water at the front of the stroke, the opposite leg should kick.

...this is one of the slightly confusing things about the freestyle leg kick timing...its all a matter of perspective.

We are suggesting that as your left hand enters the water, you should be kicking down with the right leg, i.e. opposite to opposite.

The other information you have read is from the perspective of the pull through where indeed the same arm should be mid-way through the catch (approximately when the catching arm is at 90 degrees to the surface of the water, or the hand is under the shoulder) as the same leg is kicking down, i.e. same to same.

Both methods are correct as they are both exactly the same, just taken from a subtly different snapshot in time.

I made this change to my stroke last year and it had a profound effect, but only after a LOT of practice. Getting your head around this coordination can be equally confusing, but don't panic, we have something in the pipeline to show you how!!

Cheers

Paul

[HalfLordofthefishes]

As always, I'm more than impressed with SwimSmooth's attention to US, that is WE not the United States
Thanks for the explanation. It is a bit confusing but also its exciting to know that I don't really have to make yet another decision, just have to work on doing it correctly. The confusion might have been amplified by SS's obove water video while the others are all under water, ref: the TI coach shinji takeuchi on youtube.

Ok, now I just had a thought here. If you are kicking opposite leg to a hand entering the water, and then again as the hand passes midway through the catch with the same leg, isn't that two beats per side, rather than per cycle? So four beats per cycle? Ah, wait, as your hand is passing under you, midpull, you are kicking same side, and at the same time, the other arm is entering the water. Got it.
Its a bit Rubik's cubish. But I just had a big "ohhhhhhh". Thanks

I'm really looking forward to whatever bombshell you guys are planning with the two-beat. I hope its a Mr. Smooth demo, that would be spectacular.
Thanks again!
Paul

[Andre]

I decided to take up a two beat kick as my off season resolution. I felt that often I was kicking harder to keep my split times when my balance and form was falling apart, so I thought the two beat kick would help correct that.

I too felt that the timing of the kick was with the same arm pull, it feels best. When I used the wetronome last season, I got in the habit of timing the beep with the arm entry in the water. After a couple of weeks of trying to two beat kick, I found that the timing the beep to the kick worked best. Basically once the beep goes, its kick/rotate the core/ pull.

I've been teaching myself this two beat kick with a fairly low stroke rate and at lower speeds. The plan is to gradually increase the stroke rate and try to keep the same distance per stroke. I'm hoping this pays huge dividends come spring!

[Andre]

I said earlier that kick with the pull on the same side, and of course on today's swim I noticed where the opposite hand was when kicking; just entering the water.
Same thing, different perspective.

[HalfLordofthefishes]

I just love the two beat kick these days. For some reason I've had a lot of trouble developing my six beat kick because I tend to overdo it and exhaust myself. I'm sure its lack of training and i'll have to suck it up down the road and learn it well, but its hard to do that knowing about the two beat.

I'm curious Paul, you mentioned that you have integrated the two beat kick into your stroke but only after lots of practice. Does that mean that you train exclusively with the 2B kick? Please say yes.

Paul.

[Silk]

When I first started, I was taught a 2 beat kick (BK). I am never quite able to do a 6BK. When I do my 6BK, I was expending a tad more energy but I didn't feel that the speed gain (which was negligible, if any) was worth the trade-off in energy expended. Through some experimenting on my own, I managed to accomplish a 4BK which involved three beats on one side and one beat on the other. It was a compromise so to speak.

I guess most of us here appreciate that a 2BK or 4BK is an energy-saving kick favoured by distance swimmers. But to add another dimension to the discussion:

1. Is it possible to sprint with a 2BK ? I am having in mind the mass starts in triathlons and the pool events where people do distances anywhere below say 400m. Regarding a triathlon mass start, the lazy/energy-saving part of me thinks that it is pointless doing a 6BK if that only makes me say 30 seconds faster than if I were to do a 2BK. Regarding the aforesaid pool events, is it possible to ever be fast with a 2BK or will we forever plateau at a certain time and move no further?

2. I have been "encouraged" to stop doing a 2BK and switch to a 6BK. Part of me resists this and I can almost understand how Michael Phelps must have felt when he was forced when young to change from a 2BK to a 6BK.

3. I have heard it said that for a 2BK, a good strong stroke and a rapid turnover is required to make up for the lack of leg action. My reply to that if I were to play Devil's advocate would be that the kicks do not contribute much to propulsion and they serve more to stabilise the body and facilitate in the body roll.

Perhaps Paul/Adam would want to comment on this further?

[scarlet]

This is a really interesting debate! I just met Paul and Adam at a SwimSmooth clinic in the UK, and one of the things I was talking to Paul about was the 2 beat kick. He mentioned that its necessary (or maybe desirable) to increase your stroke rate when moving from 6 beat to 2 beat to reduce any potential dead-spot at the start of the stroke that a 6 beat kick would push you through.

I'd never been able to do a 2 beat kick until my chat with Paul, but after a couple of pointers, I gave it a try and hey! Presto! I can now do a very rough 2 beat kick. Has anyone found that the amplitude of your kick gets bigger as you move from 2 beat to 6 beat?

I think its going to take me some mileage before I get as comfy as you guys.

[HalfLordofthefishes]

I'm very envious, I would love to go to one of those workshops! Maybe someday they will visit the Los Angeles area.
Regarding your increased stroke rate idea, I think you are spot on. When I'm really feeling it in the water with the 2 beat kick, I usually notice that I'm achieving a really strong pace (for me). If I go to slow, I sometimes lose balance and scissor a bit.
One other thing regarding the 2bk... I notice that when I finish my pull and exit well, that tiny bit of extra rotational energy really works with the force of the two beat and everything comes together at once. Its really an amazing feeling when it happens. Just more to think about, just what we all need
Paul.

[scarlet]

The clinic was absolutely ace, I'd thoroughly recommend it, although it would be a long way to come, Halflord.

My 2 beat is moving slowly forward – the amplitude of my kick is under control, I think, and I'm finding a bit more rhythm too. I think my stroke rate is settling down at about 75-80, which is 10 higher than with my 6 beat kick. I'm also about 5 secs slower kicking 2 beat as opposed to 6 beat, but that might be lack of practice/experience!
One thing I've noticed – the balance point seems to have changed, and my legs are lower in the water. I suppose I can understand this – does anyone else notice this?
Also, my shoulders (deltoids) are getting a workout here, which I assume means I'm not engaging my lats and pecs well enough? Which may mean I'm too flat? Anyone got any thoughts??

[Paul Newsome]

Anyone got any thoughts??

These were my exact findings also Scarlet. Took me ~6 weeks to make the changes and feel good with them. Went from only being able to do ~1:30 per 100m with 2-beat, to doing a lifetime best set of 20 x 100m on 1:30 holding every single repeat on 1:08 - very pleasing indeed when I cracked it!

Cheers

Paul

[scarlet]

Shock result: tried just to swim 400 as 2-beat at the end of my session yesterday. You have to bear a few things in mind: I have a cold right now, and also because I'm learning and the reduced propulsion from my legs, I have to balance the effort carefully - its certainly not easy (or I sink), but its not hard either. So, my first attempt at anything longer than 200m...6:11 - only 10 secs off my PB, and I could have carried on! This 2-beat thing is fun, even if I feel like a windmill, by the time I've turned my legs off, I can windmill quite well, it seems. As soon as I ditch this cold, I'm going to try a 400TT...
Is anyone else out there experimenting with 2-beat? Anyone made any breakthroughs?

[HalfLordofthefishes]

yes, I cut my legs off, now swimming much faster

[Paul R]

When I use a 2 beat kick, my legs cross over. I was told years ago that it was a "two beat cross over" but I have never heard that term since and I wonder with the current discussions if it is just a form of "scissoring". Thoughts?

[velvetparlour]

When I use a 2 beat kick, my legs cross over. I was told years ago that it was a "two beat cross over" but I have never heard that term since and I wonder with the current discussions if it is just a form of "scissoring". Thoughts?

yeah I remember that term

this has prob all been said above,

I think that while the 2 beat kick is still (and should be) encouraged for some swimmers, the cross-over is not necessarily a good thing. I use both 2 and six beat kick in 15 hundreds. Triathletes favor the 2 beat for less energy consumption - generally your average triathlete is getting next-to zero propulsion from kick but can get plenty of stability and lower body positioning from it - and 2 beat does that sufficiently - good to have the option of both the 2 and 6 tho - six is good for turning on the speed - even if you get little more propulsion out of it, you certainly get more balance and stability when approaching a "sprint" like stroke and rating.

here is an underwater of my favourite 2 beat kicker (lovely)- second lane from camera - Laure Manaudou

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oac5nUDns94

no crossovers here tho

[HalfLordofthefishes]

Hey VelvetParlour, that is a great video of a two-beat absolutely flying! I will use that today when I'm out in the open water getting killed by my training mates (aka the people I want to crush).
Makes me really wonder what my two-beat looks like, bc I'm sure I'm not doing that! I'm not sure about everyone else, but slowing down to a two-beat makes me feel like I really have to overdo it... Give a huge wap of a kick on each side. Looking at the vid again, there is not much of a movement in terms of degrees, yet it still looks beautiful and very powerful!
Thanks for that.

[manilenio]

Today I incorporated the 2-beat kick. While it took some mental conditioning to get the timing right (middle of the pull, kick), I was struggling halfway because I was starting to sink, which affected my breathing and I started to drink in pool water. I don't understand why though. Maybe it was my posture? I also noticed my catch and recovery started to fall apart too, and I was really concentrating on keeping it together just to swim 25m. I'll keep at it. Any tips to help a beginner? Thanks

[manilenio]

Swam again today because I was determined to get the 2-beat kick right. In the end, I donned fins which helped me tremendously as I got some of my previous propulsion (with the flutter kick) back. The only thing I'm worried about is that I know using fins is just masking the problem. Should I keep on using them to train my feet first?

[HalfLordofthefishes]

I like using fins to practice the 2-beat kick. It also helps stretch the ankles a bit.
One thing that helped me learn the 2 beat kick is coming from a 'no kick' place, rather than from a flutter, etc. Next time you swim, do a few laps with ZERO kick. Then, slowly integrate a very small pulse on each side with each stroke. If you go from a six beat or bigger, its hard to slow it down. My body goes into a strange place of involuntary kicking. Good luck.

[manilenio]

Tried the zero kick and I began to sink really quickly. Unfortunately my stroke count isn't that high yet so that's probably the culprit. I'll keep using the fins for the 2-beat kick for now I guess.