sun yang 1500 stroke analysis

[Mike A]

I don't think many elite pool swimmers race with bilateral breathing. It's a good method for improving symmetry, but elites tend to breathe to a favoured side in races. Sun Yang does breathe to his less favoured side when going into a flip turn, but that's because he breathes both sides just before turning, to take on extra oxygen.

[SolarEnergy]

Ryan Cochrane, to my big surprise, did race breathing every 3 for a very large portion of the 1500m (silver medal performance) in London 2012. But as you mention, it's very rare.

In fact, if there was such a claim as a SwimSmooth stroke, I'd say that Ryan did swim it in July of this year (high rate, bilat breathing, no dead spot, etc)...

[chdoyle]

If you ever wondered (like me) what it means by a 'hip driven' stroke watch this clip and especially at the point 9:00 to 9:06. There you can clearly see how Sun wips/turns his hips compared to Cochrane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5FlDy3Y ... r_embedded

[SolarEnergy]

My take on hip driven body rotation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lca_XFevXQ
(very very clearly, hips move first, followed by the rest)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n_rqKsqU_w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSYQ6BaM2A

This, by the way, would be an equivalent to one of the TI switch drills. Very simple. It promotes rotating from the hips.

I haven't had the huge chance of working with Ryan unfortunately. So I prefer not to comment on his stroke. He's still the silver medalist, in less than a second per 100m behind Sun. He lost this battle, but certainly not the war (not just yet).

[chdoyle]

My take on hip driven body rotation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lca_XFevXQ
(very very clearly, hips move first, followed by the rest)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n_rqKsqU_w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSYQ6BaM2A

This, by the way, would be an equivalent to one of the TI switch drills. Very simple. It promotes rotating from the hips.

I haven't had the huge chance of working with Ryan unfortunately. So I prefer not to comment on his stroke. He's still the silver medalist, in less than a second per 100m behind Sun. He lost this battle, but certainly not the war (not just yet).

The last 2 are amazing! Ever since I read about TI/Terry suggesting you get more power from your core than your arms I had yet to see an example od this theory. When I started watching the first clip it was surrealistic because I stopped and said, 'wait, how is this guy moving himself forward, he's not kicking!' Then I saw his arms doing a slight movement but he was getting more speed than from just his arms, his rotation was helping his forward movement. It's even more apparent in the last clip. I have to try this drill next time at the pool. I already do a version of it but with the flutter kick.

[chdoyle]

By the way. Here is a link to a copy I made of a Sun Yang video found on ytube. This .mov can be saved onto a hard drive and played with any Qtime player, frame by frame! Much easier for analysis than ytube. Enjoy!

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10216674/SunYang.rar

[SolarEnergy]

The last 2 are amazing! Ever since I read about TI/Terry suggesting you get more power from your core than your arms I had yet to see an example od this theory. When I started watching the first clip it was surrealistic because I stopped and said, 'wait, how is this guy moving himself forward, he's not kicking!' Then I saw his arms doing a slight movement but he was getting more speed than from just his arms, his rotation was helping his forward movement. It's even more apparent in the last clip. I have to try this drill next time at the pool. I already do a version of it but with the flutter kick.

Thank you so much, you touched the heart of this drill. I can't think of any other drills that best promotes body rotation, along with all the good it can bring.

And yes, you nailed it. The purpose here is to isolate the body rotation (hence the name, isolated rotation) then add minimal SwimSmooth Sculling #3 to it. But as you mention, it's not that much an effort coming from the arm/hand itself, as much as a consequence of this overall rotation, which, I like to believe, transmits some of its power down to the limbs.

It really favor inside-out swimming.

Generally speaking, I really try my best to simplify everything, so that these concepts be understandable not only by the brain of an adult (which is very powerful) but also by the body. And the body of an adult swimmer that started swimming at adulthood is often slower to get things that the brain.

This is why I mention that my take on hip driven rotation, is this drill. I like to get people to experience it, then they understand.

Now there's a trap, a big caveat. It's still difficult for me to teach this drill. When I teach it to an already good swimmer, he does perform it instantly. But I am still having a very hard time getting someone that is not already a good swimmer to execute it properly. I created it 1 year ago, and haven't logged enough coaching time at it to untie this nod.

The biggest flaw that I've found very often, is that people are going reverse. They push with their hand *to trigger* the body rotation, instead of rotating first then finishing the gesture with a slight sweeping action. So it's still work in progress...

By the way. Here is a link to a copy I made of a Sun Yang video found on ytube. This .mov can be saved onto a hard drive and played with any Qtime player, frame by frame! Much easier for analysis than ytube. Enjoy!

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10216674/SunYang.rar

thanks so much for your time, it's very well appreciated. I would strongly recommend that you don't publish this though. I did publish a very short clip, pulled out of CTV (Canadian Broadcaster) Website. It didn't take 10 minutes and they were already threatening me (and they can get very scary). So careful with intellectual property.

PS - I am very glad that it seems we'll be friend after all. I was fearing having chocked you with my take on Shinji's stroke etc.... Hope you feel as comfortable here that you are on TI Forums. You definitely have a place here, and keep being critic!

I already do a version of it but with the flutter kick.

Would be keen to share with you, the paternity of my NAD drill (No Arm Drill). Tell me if it looks like that below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xgkr9nZZmk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZfaB4fH6IE

With snorkel and a single arm stroke every 3 (to show the versatility of the drill)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGCBgGINy0c

[chdoyle]

PS - I am very glad that it seems we'll be friend after all. I was fearing having chocked you with my take on Shinji's stroke etc.... Hope you feel as comfortable here that you are on TI Forums. You definitely have a place here, and keep being critic!

Thanks! Will do!

Would be keen to share with you, the paternity of my NAD drill (No Arm Drill). Tell me if it looks like that below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xgkr9nZZmk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZfaB4fH6IE

With snorkel and a single arm stroke every 3 (to show the versatility of the drill)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGCBgGINy0c

Only similar. The TI drill doesn't specify rotation with a stroke rhythm as I see here.
It will be good to start this drill with a kick then progress to the pullbuoy version. The kick version I would put my hands on my thighs for nice tight form.

Is there a thread started for 'homemade' drills? I am working on one but want to talk about it in the right thread.

[andresmuro]

[quote="SolarEnergy"]My take on hip driven body rotation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lca_XFevXQ
(very very clearly, hips move first, followed by the rest)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n_rqKsqU_w

Who is the guy in the video? great posture!

[SolarEnergy]

It's our fastest triathlete in our varsity team (best 800m = 9 min flat). Started swimming 6 years ago (age 17). Trying to become a swimmer ever since.

He's quite close, but not *there* just yet LOL

I may try to convert him to marathon swims in a year or 2 from now, which could mean a come back on the world circuit for me. I miss these so much...

[SharkFM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvM3JYC--hM

I am looking at this again is guy is doing an "X" fly or cross fly type of stroke.

By cross I mean the he's one-legged fly kicking his recoery arm in and one legged fly kicking his arm out.
Or you could also say it was a single sided power stroke that the arm pull and single leg fly kick are executed the same side, in unison. Thus making is a fly split down the middle. Like two paddles going together for a canoe, are better than syncopated.

Get what I'm sayin'?